Everyday Burnout Conversations
Everyday burnout conversations is an honest podcast sharing the burnout experiences of others from all walks of life. Host, Flic Taylor, is a writer whose passion for burnout arose when she became a mental health writer dealing with severe burnout - and yes, the irony is not lost on her! Enjoy these weekly conversations sharing stories of surviving and thriving, all delightfully wrapped up in epic truths, compassion, and humour.
Everyday Burnout Conversations
Jess Frost | Unveiling the trauma, burnout and healing of Adult Children of Alcoholics
In this episode, I share an everyday burnout conversation with the fabulous, Jess Frost.
TW for this episode:
Suicide and addiction
1 in 5 of us are affected by others drinking.
Many children grow up caretaking for parents with addiction and work tirelessly to protect the family 'secret'. Subconsciously learning that it isn't safe to talk, feel or trust. These beliefs have a real detrimental impact on connection, self-care, self-worth, intimacy, vulnerability and access to support in later life.
Jess Frost is a Holistic Empowerment Coach, Breathwork Teacher and Somatic EMDR Practitioner for Adult Children of Alcoholics, and Co-Founder of the wellbeing organisation The 3E Space. Jess globally works with ACoA's both 1:1 and in her group empowerment programme COurAgeous Healing.
After 15 years of working in fast-paced recruitment sales and following a life-changing period of severe burnout and breakdown in 2017, Jess embarked on her empowering path back to herself, and now helps others to do the same. Jess is passionate about integrating a range of integrative tools into her holistic practice, including Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), Hypnotherapy, Time Line Therapy, Parts work, EFT Tapping, Somatic EMDR and Conscious-Connected Breathwork.
Jess is on a mission to ensure that as many ACoAs as possible know how worthy they are of putting themselves first and that they are not alone.
Learn more about Jess and her work:
www.the3espace.com
Jess' Nacoa article: https://nacoa.org.uk/being-a-coa-in-the-workplace/
Instagram: @iamjessfrost and @the_3e_space
Facebook: @jessfrostempowerment
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessfrost/
Nacoa Big Walk Fundraising Page: https://www.justgiving.com/page/jess-frost-1711566461523
Josh Connolly's website
Please note, this podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you're having a rough time or concerned that you're experiencing burnout, remember YOU matter, so please reach out to your doctor or mental health professional for support and guidance tailored for you.
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Check out my latest work and discover how you can work one-to-one with me to tackle your burnout at flictaylor.com
Hello, I'm Flick and you're listening to Everyday Burnout Conversations. This is the honest podcast that shares burnout expertise, along with the stories of others from all walks of life that strive to inspire and help you manage and avoid burnout. Now, my passion for burnout and self-care came about when I became a mental health writer who'd lost her own mental health to severe burnout, and it's an irony that's not lost on me. So get set to enjoy another great conversation, delightfully wrapped up in some wisdom, humour and great storytelling. Enjoy up in some wisdom, humour and great storytelling. Enjoy.
Flic Taylor :Today I share an everyday burnout conversation with Jess Frost. Honestly, my intuitive, spidey senses were telling me this would be a good one and, oh my stars, it truly was. It was well. It was a gorgeous, raw, emotional, emotional and honest conversation. Maybe, like me, you're surprised to hear that one in five of us are affected by others drinking. Many children actually grow up caretaking for parents with addiction and work tirelessly to protect the family secret, as it were, subconsciously learning that it's not safe to talk, feel or trust and beliefs of. Well, they have a real detrimental impact on connection, self-care, self-worth, intimacy, vulnerability and access to support in later life. Now Jess Frost she's a holistic empowerment coach, a breathwork teacher and somatic EMDR practitioner for adult children of alcoholics, and she's also the co-founder of the well-being organization the 3e space. Jess globally works with adult children of alcoholics, both on a one-to-one level and within her group empowerment program called courageous healing. After 15 years of working in fast-paced recruitment sales, and following a life-changing period of severe burnout and breakdown, in 2017, jess embarked on her empowering path back to herself and now helps others to do the same. She's passionate about integrating a range of integrative tools into her holistic practice, including neuro-linguistic programming, hypnotherapy, timeline therapy, neuro-linguistic programming, hypnotherapy, timeline therapy, parts work, eft tapping, somatic EMDR and conscious connected breath work. Jess is on a mission to ensure as many adult children of alcoholics know how worthy they are of putting themselves first and to know that they are not alone. And so there are no surprises for you. This conversation has a trigger warning for suicide and addiction.
Flic Taylor :So grab your brew, get comfy and get set to tuck into this mighty everyday burnout conversation with the fabulous Jess Frost. Oh, jess, I am so. I've been really chomping at the bit to have this conversation with you. I've been counting down the days. I'm really I know this conversation, your work, your message your energy, your experience, your wisdom, everything we've got to get it out into the world because it's going to really help some people out there. I watched an incredible Instagram live. You did you record, it's on your grid so anyone listening go and have a little look um where you share your story and it's it really um, it's really stayed with me. And obviously you talk about burnout and how burnout manifests and how it's unfolded in this journey, this incredible journey that you've been on. So let's tuck in, darling, I'd love you to share a little bit of your story, start wherever, because, yeah, let's just go for it.
Jess Frost :Let's get stuck in. Let's go right to the nitty-gritty. Firstly, thank you for having me doll. I was just literally saying before you click record, I was like where have you been my entire life? You know, when you meet a soul and you're like I feel like we'd be really good mates and your energy is exactly what my soul is like we're just catching up do you know what I mean, right?
Jess Frost :yeah, so thank you and, and honestly, like when I, when I, when I saw your podcast, I was like this this is soulmate kind of conversation. So, thank you, it means the world to me. Um, so, from the lens of burnout, I will start from the beginning and try and make it as succinct as possible. Um, so, growing up, on the face of it it looked lovely, right, I grew up in rural Leicestershire in the Midlands of the UK, and you know, both my parents had good jobs. My mum was in in fashion, my dad was in advertising, very creative family and I got a little sister, rosie, who's four years younger than me. And, yeah, on the face of it it looked lovely and for the most you know, I can hand on heart say I did have a lovely childhood, whilst also saying it was really challenging at times. And the reason it was challenging, well, there's lots, but anyway, um, behind the scenes, my dad was really struggling with his mental, emotional health. Um, he, my dad, bless him. He's a highly sensitive man. I'm highly sensitive person, right, we have a lot in common. He's deeply spiritual and I can now see how my dad was all already on this like quest for who he was. He wanted to know why I was on this planet. You know, when my mum met him he got a book under his arm. You know he's he's very interesting, he's very charismatic Um. But he also really struggled with his mental, emotional health. He'd be um out of work a lot. Um, he was at one point diagnosed with schizophrenia bipolar. Um really struggled with depression and I remember as well with his physical health, like he slipped a disc when I was younger. Like I remember him being at home a lot and I remember him struggling and us, me and my little sister having to be there for him and very much the kind of look after your dad, don't upset your dad, and kind of the eggshell living. Not so much at that point when we were very little, but it was very much like keep be quiet, dad's not feeling very well, kind of thing.
Jess Frost :And my mum, on the flip side, she was very much I hate the term breadwinner, but she had to be the one that was bringing in the money for the house. Um, she would be way a lot with fashion. Um, she'd be working late um. And my mum I never really saw her calm. I never really saw her relax, relax. And even she wouldn't mind me saying, even when we'd sit and watch a film growing up, yeah, we'd be like mum, can we watch this film? She'd have to get the ironing board out and she'd have to iron, she could not sit with us. It would be like I've got to do something whilst I watch the film. So, yeah, mum was always go go, go doing. Mum was always go go, go doing, doing, doing. Always very fast, paced, very successful, but very fine, kind of stressed.
Jess Frost :And then my dad was very, very up and down. He was either really, really happy, really like the life and soul of the party, or it was very, very dark for him. Um, we moved out of Leicester when I was probably about eight to a rural village south of Leicester in the UK and it was beautiful, like at the time people were relocating out of London to move to this little village. It got a beautiful little primary school, it got great transport links to London and, like I say, it looked perfect. But again, my dad had literally just been made redundant. He had joined a cult. We didn't, he didn't know it, but it wasn't. It wasn't a very nice one either. Um, he was sending our family's money to this cult. He would disappear for times on end. We wouldn't see him, um, and yeah, at one point he actually packed his bags up and left us to go and join this cult in amer.
Jess Frost :I don't think I've shared this on many podcasts, actually, but I think that was a real poignant moment. Now. Now I look back on my healing journey Right and I remember mum being there, stood with me, and Rosie as she. We all waved goodbye to my dad and I remember like thinking, oh my God, like this is this is really scary. And my mum just went okay, girls, let's go swimming, this is really scary. And my mum just went okay, girls, let's go swimming.
Jess Frost :We actually just went swimming and it was like let's not talk about it, let's not feel the feelings, let's just kind of crack on, and it was very stoic in that sense. Yeah, it was very much let's kind of smile through it and crack on. But my dad got sectioned very shortly after leaving us. He never left the country. He was taken back into hospital and my mum openly admits she was a rescuer. She was in codependency. We took my dad back in when actually probably they'd have been healthier to have separated at that time. But we kind of all came together again and that's when the eggshell living really began again. And that's when the eggshell living really began and that's when, I think, alcohol dependency within the home ramped up completely.
Jess Frost :The funny thing is the alcohol consumption that I saw within the family didn't I didn't really it didn't shock me because I could see elsewhere as well. Like the village was very sociable. There were so many dinner parties. People loved a dinner party right, and you know there'd be alcohol flowing. The kids would be like chucked upstairs but I remember like sneaking down and like my dad would literally most times be face down in his dinner and people would laugh and go, martin, you know, and that was how he was. Just I just remember like just my dad just head slumped the whole time. Um, and yeah, it would be like trips down the perb a lot.
Jess Frost :The kids would kind of parent themselves over here and alcohol was just massive. It was um, so I can't even say it was just my family, right, but alcohol was a tool for everything. It was when we were having good times, when we were having, my parents were really stressed. Um, I started drinking probably at like 13. Like when the house parties were happening. Me and my friends would like literally the room would be lined with booze, at least in parties, and we'd sneak in and like, nick, all the booze, take it out to a friend's barn and like we'd literally be like getting over there yeah, we did, that's what we did.
Flic Taylor :We learned young like, yeah, like it was just that kind of yeah, that community spirit. And, as you say, you know you have a drink when you're kind of need cheering up. You have a drink to celebrate. You have a drink because it's saturday. You have a drink like it's yeah, yeah everywhere and right.
Jess Frost :I don't know if you remember, but like when it was like the 90s, there was, um, like people like, uh, sarah cox, sarah, is it sarah cox? And you know, there was the whole like what's the whole? Gladette, gladette culture yes, um, and they were my icons. Yeah, like, literally, I was like I want to be like zoe ball. I'm gonna be like sarah cox, like these women that can drink men under the table. I was quite all day drinking, you remember?
Flic Taylor :all day drinking in london at that point I just moved down and I was. It was, yeah, the nineties, I was early twenties and it was yeah, you would do like a 12 hour stint of drinking all day. Yeah, yeah.
Jess Frost :I pride myself on, like you know, trying to drink the guys under the table and all of that. And yeah, like the children it was, the parents knew we were all drinking. You know it was very, it was very kind of accepted. But it was when the dinner parties ended and when you were behind the closed doors, like that's when I saw the real effects of not just alcohol, my dad's mental and emotional health and his real struggle. And you know he he was verbally abusive at times. I was the elder sibling and yeah, I, I took a lot of the. I was a bit of a punching bag really, if you kind of put a foot wrong, you know, you know about it and I very much would be the one kind of making sure my little sister was okay. My sister was very sensitive, she was very quiet and yeah, I'd really make sure that she felt as safe as possible.
Jess Frost :And yeah, this continued for a few years of just this real eggshell living the alcohol consumption getting worse. My dad was out of work. He was out of work, you know, from probably the age of 50. He got made redundant and never worked again. So there was just, yeah, boozing with friends drinking in the house and we had a year that I think changed everything for all of us, and that was when I was was I would have been 18 and already my parents relationship was fractured. I I could see kind of them separating imminently. Um, and we had my my dad called us to say that, um, his parents had taken their lives by suicide, he'd found them, and that was just a moment that I'll never forget and actually I was saying to my mum and my sister and my dad recently that I'm not sure we've, we as a family, have really processed.
Jess Frost :I remember just thinking at that time this is going to kill my dad, this is going to kill him. He was already already struggling so much. Really, we're really really affected by his drinking. My mum was drinking as well to kind of deal with the stress of everything. I remember, um, you know, literally taking my mum to one side and saying to her mum, you're gonna have to leave, like, you're gonna have to leave him because or else we're gonna have another parent in hospital.
Jess Frost :And I look back and I'm like, oh, my god, like, yes, yeah, that weight, um, but that's what I was in the household. I was the coach, therapist, friend, caretaker, like, and yeah, like that, that's that's the kind of conversation that I was having earlier, way earlier than 18 as well. And they did they separated and miraculously I got into university. I say miraculously but actually the more people I speak to with similar experiences it's not that shocking. But yeah, there was obviously a part of me that was desperate to make them happy, desperate to achieve and not let anyone down. So I got into Warwick University in the UK to study psychology. Now, no, it's to understand what the f was going on literally like can someone help me um?
Jess Frost :uh, so yeah.
Flic Taylor :I did these careers, aren't we?
Jess Frost :literally I was like at that point I think I had aspirations to be a counselor or therapist, um, and went to university to study psychology. But oh, if I'm honest, because it was, it was straight after all this stuff at home, like that was where I just escaped for a bit. Really, I don't think I went to lectures at all and I really ramped up my own booze consumption, found cocaine. It was like, woohoo, don't have to feel anything. I found loads of food, junk food. So it was like anything I could do to numb my emotions out, like gained a lot of weight was, yeah, drinking, doing drugs, going out all the time, not going to lectures, um, and then feeling so guilty because my little sister was dealing with everything at home where she was living with my mum, but my dad was living in his own house on his own, say, I was the child of an alcoholic, like there was drinking in the day, there was him, like walking around town, just completely out of it. We lived in. We lived in the same little rural, um, rural, little town where there was not many people, so everyone knew everyone. And yeah, you know you couldn't hide, I couldn't hide from it, rosie couldn't hide from it and, um, yeah, it was that real horrible conflict of get me as far away from this stuff as possible. But, oh my god, I'm out of control, I can't, can't protect anyone.
Jess Frost :Um, and this point my dad was like his hygiene as happens with people that are really struggling with alcoholism, his hygiene completely went downhill, wasn't looking after himself. He'd got the family dog that, um, we had to take off him because we were just so concerned for the safety of the dog and he was inviting people that were homeless in the town to live with him. It was like a squat, um, and yeah, when, when I left university and came back home, that's when enough was enough, his, his mental health was declining even further and and we had to deal with the house situation and get these people out of the house and get my dad into like a halfway house where he could get care. Thankfully, I look back and I'm like I don't remember the support networks back then. There was no kind of like helplines like you were literally like dealing with it on your own incredible, and you know, it's, it's, it is, it's, it's.
Jess Frost :It's incredible and heartbreaking in the same, in the same breath, and like just things. Like I'd gone into recruitment as a career because it's what most, I think a lot of people from my um my course ended up doing psychology and recruitment because they were a bit like I don't really know what I want to do. I want to help people, um, and it was like fast-paced and exciting, but my dad would turn up to reception. I get a call from the receptionist going down at Jesse dad's here again and I'll be like oh my god, the shame, and like trying to hide it and like trying to escort him home.
Jess Frost :Um, jesse dad's on the phone and I'm like oh my god, like please, and just desperately trying to hide the family secret, which I now know from you know, working with children of alcoholics, that this is what we do. Is we protect desperately the secret, desperately trying to protect the, the local community from seeing it. Um, and, yeah, that that was kind of like the early years of of my experiences this relentless pressure, this desperate trying to pretend things aren't happening. Yeah, like you're living dual lives.
Flic Taylor :You know, you're just protecting your dad, your parents, your sister. You're just these spinning plates, you're just trying to manage everything. Yeah and oh, my goodness, it's, that's heavy, that's heavy. And the thing is you, you were doing it from such a young age, without even knowing as well.
Jess Frost :Yeah, yeah, and I think that's that's a really important thing to know is that you don't even realise that's what you're doing. You think this is really normal. Yeah, you wouldn't even question that, that's your role. You wouldn't even question that that's your role. And I think, well, I think I now know that one of my kind of protections I guess protector parts of myself was that I focused my attention outwards. It would be like, oh no, I'm the one that helps other people, I'm the good listener, I'm the good friend. Like I want to go into counseling, I'm going to go into therapy, like, oh, I'm going to look at my dad and I'm going to help my dad and I'm going to be there for my mom and look after my sister. And it was like no, I'm fine, I don't need to look at me, I've not got the problem.
Flic Taylor :Yeah, you don't even want that, you don't even want anyone to say how are you or anything? Because no, it becomes attached to what you give to others. 100, so, like that's celebrated, yeah, you're just yet the worth is attached, isn't it?
Jess Frost :100. If someone said to me, one of my biggest activators I still get it now, I still get like an activation in my body is when someone goes I'm worried about you, that I'm like what? My armor comes up and I'm like I know what you're talking about, I'm fine. Yeah, like what do you mean? And and yeah, it's really funny to notice now even still like little bits of like and it's like no, jess, you're safe to not be okay, yes, it's so interesting.
Flic Taylor :You know what people, if they, I have a friend who will text me and go how are you? And I never answer. They have to ask me two or three times and and I'm aware I'm doing it. Yeah, it's that. You know, I'm fine, I'm good. So what have you been up to? What are you? What you know? You just want to help other people and deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect. And you, you're aware of it, but it's so ingrained in you, isn't it just because of this being your normality from such a young age?
Jess Frost :yeah, I was able to like, share.
Jess Frost :It's interesting, I got a part of me that wouldn't wouldn't accept any like is everything okay, I'm worried about you. And then I got another part of me that that used to say oh, I could tell my story to the person behind me in Morrison's and like it was like a script yeah, dad left, dad joined this school, lost my grandparents, suicide, then this happened and it was so disconnected, like I was so up in my head that was my protection. Oh, I can intellectualize this and I'm going to learn about it in psychology. I'm not going to feel it, I don't know, I'm just going to push it down and I'm not going to go anywhere near it. And that's why I told myself I was fine, because I was like well, I can talk about it. But it was so scripted, it was so masked and even in when I delved into some talking therapy, it was like, so just giving her what I thought I needed to do. You know the tricks of the trade, love, I was an expert don't kill a killer, here we go.
Flic Taylor :That's what you need.
Jess Frost :Pepper right lovely yeah, honestly, and I would. I'd leave, I'd go home via co-op get a bottle of red and then go drink.
Jess Frost :The feelings that slightly came to the surface during therapy yeah yes, oh my god, the mask in yeah, all of the masks, and I now know that you know these parts of me, these masks I wear still. Sometimes I notice them. They were there, they've been with me for a very long time. They're a result of my trauma and they're there desperately trying to protect me. And I think part of my own healing journey has been understanding that sometimes it's really not good for these parts to be in the driving seat, cause what they're doing is they're stopping me from connection, they're stopping me from intimacy, they're stopping me from vulnerability, like so many different things. Um, but I look back with compassion, which I think is a really important word for this conversation to be able to understand that that I yeah, of course they, of course I wore these masks, these comedic masks and these tough masks and these people pleasers and all this stuff. Of course I became an overworker, like it makes perfect sense, you know.
Flic Taylor :Yeah, absolutely. You were just doing your best at that time yeah, yeah, and I find it interesting that you went to the states, jess, I find that very interesting. Like, do you know what I mean? You were like, right, I've got this opportunity, I going to move over this side of the pond, yeah, yeah, and start a life over here which, on the outside, it's you know, it's very commendable, it's you know, good for you, go, get it Ambitious. But sometimes we can't, we can't escape ourselves, can we?
Jess Frost :sometimes we can't we can't escape ourselves, can we? I ran away, a lot like so. Before I moved out to New York for this job, I, I left Leicester and I moved to Bristol, um, but that's where I kind of had my first experience of burnout. It's the first time I ever got signed off, work um, ever took any medication. It's the one and only time that I that I did um. And yeah, it was like I felt this incredible shame in Bristol for my, for what my colleagues saw, because it was like I need to protect what my, my masks I need. They were slipping. I need to like I need to control how they see me, the whole perfectionist thing, the whole overwork, and I was in my first leadership position as well. So it was mortifying. And, yeah, I remember getting signed off and I left recruitment in education for a Cause. I kind of attached all the shame to the job, you know.
Jess Frost :And then I got this job in events where I got the opportunity to go out and work in New York for a bit and it was like okay, good, fresh start, like I can leave that behind and process it or anything. I didn't unpack it, I just put it in a box and went goodbye, um, and I thought, right, this is a new opportunity, opportunity, this is the, this is the new me. So, yeah, I was. I got to kind of go away and work in New York and I was living in this beautiful little place in Brooklyn like working in Manhattan and there taking pictures on my stoop at the weekends and like living my hashtag best life. And for a while I was. I think yeah, I think genuinely there's been moments of like, alignment, of like. Okay, I feel like I can genuinely be me, but then what happens is what's sitting in the subconscious takes hold and the patterns start again and I try and change and then again the subconscious is like tapping and it's like nope, here we go, we're going to do the same old things. And new york is amazing, but it's not freaking amazing if you're not okay that the accessibility for drugs not just kind of illegal drugs that you might kind of access here in the uk, it's like prescription drugs being handed around work. You've got alcohol, literally happy hours everywhere. The alcohol strength was through the roof and it was work hard, play hard, like my whole career. Everything was like your praise for overworking, your praise for staying late. Let's bring the alcohol trolley out, let's go for happy hour, um, let's drink on the lunch break, like you name it. And then I'm going back to a place on my own and sitting with myself and yeah, like I think that with this particular job in New York I was, I was like a pressure cooker.
Jess Frost :I was getting to like early to mid 30s and my relationship was strained. I really struggled with intimacy. I'd get to like two years in a relationship and then I'd run. It was same pattern, same pattern, same pattern. And then there was whispers of like we're worried about you, I'm really worried about Jess, is she okay out there in the U S? And like that was like a force for me to carry on. Even worse, I was like I'll fucking show you. Do you know what I mean? I was like you don't, don't, don't worry about me. And then I'd be there behind closed doors, you know, drinking and doing drugs. And yeah, I it came to a head and I ended up resigning.
Jess Frost :And again this was a similar thing to my relationships. I walked out and I kind of did it like dramatically sometimes, and it was like screw you, I don't need this anyway. And I'd like got my backpack with my um bottles and my shoes, hanging out of it my coffee cups, and walking across Brooklyn Bridge with this rucksack on, looking up at the building that I was working in, was working in and looking and being like what the hell? Like what have I done? What is going on? Oh my god, I'm gonna have to ring my boyfriend. Oh my god, I'm gonna have to ring my mom and like just the the shame and the pride in like this weird duality.
Flic Taylor :yeah, because that reaction, if you're not, it's like it's. It's like you're watching a film, actually, isn't it? It is you react and you're just doing it and part of you is like what the hell's happening here? It's you're not responding, you're purely reacting and it's like every fiber of your being is reacting to. I mean, we know the stress manifests, doesn't it physically in your body? And you, you know, I'm listening to your story, jess, and I'm like, oh my god, like you had everything on your shoulders, you were carrying so much weight. But it's fascinating how I just want people listening to this to to really appreciate that there is no kind of cognitive awareness. Step by step, I'm gonna do this. Like when you're in those situations, you are purely just reacting and it's scary yeah, it is.
Jess Frost :It is and, on the face of it, even my breakdown. I'm doing bunny ears because there's a part of me that would never have admitted that it's only in the last couple of years I've used that word for 2017 out of New York, right, even my family were like you were having a breakdown. No, I wasn't. And like breakdown, burnout, like it was my dark night, the soul, you name it. But yeah, on the face of it, right that what people saw when I resigned didn't look like a vulnerable person. Yes, it looked like someone kicking off. It looked like someone that smiled and was like don't need this job anyway, you know, and that was a mask so it wouldn't look like hysteria. It wouldn't look like, in people's eyes, someone struggling.
Jess Frost :And I've written an article for nakoa. I'll share it with you for for the show notes. But I wrote an article about how being the adult child alcoholic can manifest in the workplace and you can sometimes look like the perfect employee. You know where you are the overworker, the over giver. You win awards, right? Um, you're the one that people like you know you're quite. You know you're the one that looks after people.
Jess Frost :I was always like the in-house counselor and therapist for everyone, and but then you've got the emotional reactivity. So like this thing. This would happen where I would burst and people would be like, what the fuck? Just like, because I was known, as some people would describe me as sunshine that would be the word they'd use, because I was always smiling and like. So, like yeah, like it didn't, I didn't fit at someone that was internally not okay because it was feisty or it was happy, there was no crying or I really need some help. It was like fuck you, I'm going somewhere else. Now I'm going to move somewhere completely different. And then I moved to Nottingham yeah, oh my gosh.
Flic Taylor :But I mean, what were you feeling inside at that point?
Jess Frost :Oh, my God, you know what I've heard. I've heard this incredible woman called Lou I want to say I don't want to get the name wrong, but anyway, lou, this amazing trauma informed specialist that I met recently at a festival, and she talks about her psychosis and how it wasn't this scary experience, but it was actually this like, really almost like spiritual one, bizarre, right, I can't. I wish I could like put words to it. I might have to write a poem or something, but like the feeling I genuinely had when I was walking across the bridge and looking, yes, there was this like oh shit. Moment, but there was this fire in my belly. There was this like light flickering. That was like there's something more. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, and it was almost some might describe as manic, and I rode on this energy for a while before I crashed. I wrote, I stayed up that night and I did a whole website. Wow, it was like I was like just adrenaline, you name it but it felt good for me. Okay, maybe not for the people, but it was like this, like no, jess, this is your chance and probably a bit of F, you I'll show you in that it was definitely toxic to a level, but it was like initially it was this like right, let's do this.
Jess Frost :And I came back to the UK. I thought I could repair things with my partner, but I wasn't okay and we ended up separating. I came back to my parents, my mum's place, with her partner and I was living on the couch and that was when things started to like that energy started to be like okay, now this is gonna feel really shit and like I had to sit with the reality. You know, when your mum's there, like they're going, what are you gonna do today? Or how are you feeling? And like feeling like I was like teenager again, just mortified. And that's not my mum's fault. That's just how that immediately it feels when I have to go home of like the shame and I've got this like massive case next to the sofa and I'm scrolling Facebook and there's like people getting married and like having kids and like getting engaged, and I'm there like fucking, sound like honestly. I was like what am I to do? Like, and I look back on my Instagram and it bless me. It's all these little positive quotes, but it's like they're all for me. I was going to say yes, oh my God, they were all to keep me going.
Jess Frost :I went out. I actually I bought a ticket very soon after that to go back to New York. I was like, no, I want to stay out there, I want to. I want to be in consultancy out there. Um, I was kind of knew I was going to be an entrepreneur, so I went out there and it felt so dark. I thought I was going to go out there and it was going to feel amazing and I was going to network. I was escaping myself. I was trying to paper over the cracks. Oh, maybe if I go back it won't be as, it won't end this way. And that was when I really started to have my own suicidal ideation. It's the first time in my life I I was sat in this Airbnb going. Maybe I could do it here. I know it sounds like no trigger warning.
Flic Taylor :Obviously we'll put a trigger warning on here?
Jess Frost :yes, definitely it. It was the first time. And but then my caretaker, rescuer came in and was like, but I can't do it because I'd leave them with my debt. I'd got 20k's worth of debt. That was secret, like the shit. I was just fully in the shame swamp and I remember, like this guy walking past me in the park when I was looking quite like, obviously quite down, and he said something to me and I'll never forget it. It was just, I can't. I wish I could. I say I never forget it, but I wish I could remember the words he'd said. But I put.
Jess Frost :I looked my Instagram again and it said, like don't, like, don't, forget the power of just speaking words to someone, or something along those lines, but like lifted me from this really dark place. And then, yeah, like I think that's where, um, that's when I I got a job in Nottingham and, um, yeah, I came back, was living with my mum, got offered a job in Nottingham by an old colleague and came to where I am now, where I've been for my God, what will it be? Seven years, so I'm not run away yet. Um, but, yeah, I got to go.
Jess Frost :I got to work with an old colleague in a recruitment agency that was really good for for well-being and looked after everyone. It was one of their, you know um, most amazing values and I got to just be. They kind of left me alone. I knew what I was doing, I wasn't put under immense pressure, um, and I was able to kind of dig into my healing journey for like the first time ever at my pace, because it was like I don't want to do things too quickly, I don't want to overwhelm myself. But that was when I kind of found podcasts and books about codependency. I never heard of this term ever before and I was able to kind of, yeah, start the process of coming back to myself really see, I'm.
Flic Taylor :I'm just, first of all, I just want to go to 2017 and hug Jess in 2017 like, oh my, oh yeah, um, but it's really interesting. I'm listening to this Jess and I'm just like, oh my god, it's really interesting. I'm listening to this Jess and I'm just like, oh my God, it's literally.
Flic Taylor :I know this is painful, I know this is a shitty, shitty path that you've had to walk, but that moment, when you're in New York and you're looking at the building, I know that sense of calm amongst the actual shit storm, amongst the actual shit storm.
Flic Taylor :I know that and it's almost like it's that tower moment where every bloody brick has to come down, and then you're like, okay, and you start to reclaim the bricks that are you, that are meant for you, and I know this is just such a shit storm of us. Like a path, as I've said, yeah, but to me I'm like, oh my god, like you are a gift to the world, because only you could be the one who now is helping adult children of alcoholics and certainly tackle those kind of those, that cycle, that burnout cycle, that over pleasing, overachieving. Because you're when you're in that cycle, I'm telling you now you don't know it. You don't know it, just a little health writer. I didn't see burnout, walk through the back door. You know, and like also you know, and we will put a trigger warning at the beginning.
Flic Taylor :I always know that, that sense of calm when you're in a moment of suicide ideation and I worked in palliative care never did I think I'd ever step close to a moment like that. Yeah, yeah, I share this because I just want people listening to not feel alone, and if they're having a moment like, just like, like, oh my god, I'm hugging you right now, yeah, it's hard, isn't it darling? It's really hard it's.
Jess Frost :It's so hard, and I think sometimes like when you hear someone share their story and you hear parts that just speak to you. It's such a mix and a cocktail of emotion, isn't it? It's like parts of you feel so validated and other parts are like what.
Jess Frost :Like I'd never, ever use the term child and alcoholic until the last couple of years. Okay, okay, my dad, my dad never used that term, right, he, he was like well, I'm not like them. Well, I don't drink in the morning, I don't have a paper bag, I'm not on the bench, like you know, and I just thought I can't disrespect my family. Um, and yeah, I think hearing other people and doing the programs and being in the spaces that I've been in, I've been able to validate myself. I've not needed to ask for permission to you know, to say this is what I am, this is the label that works for me, right, because sometimes labels can be disempowering. This right now works, and I used to dismiss it myself. There's a part of me that will always dismiss anything bad. I'm like, oh, but other people have it worse. Oh, no, well, it wasn't that bad. But you know, I used to. I used to think, well, I wasn't a child, child of an alcoholic. And then I was like, jess, you were 10 when things got really bad. You were a child, but because I was parentified, I couldn't see myself as a child. Then I thought, oh, no, like that's really little, you know. But, um, yeah, you know, I I speak for adult children with an alcoholic, as as my dad's, and I think this is really poignant because my dad got sober. He said 20 years ago the other day, I went fuck off, like no, it wasn't Cheeky, was it? It was about 10 years ago. Me and my sister were like hang on a minute, pull the other one, mate. Yeah, it would be about 10 years ago, like my beloved football club, leicester City, won the league in 2016 and I used to go to, uh, philbert Street with my dad growing up like that was our bond, that was our thing, and actually, just before that time, my dad was very, very, very bad with his drinking.
Jess Frost :Um, I, honestly, at that, that that time in my life, I thought there is no way he is going to be alive when I'm, if I get married. I couldn't see him walking me down the aisle. I used to imagine his funeral and at the time, I was no contact because I just couldn't do it. I couldn't deal with it. Um, I couldn't deal with the chaos anymore. And, yeah, I used to imagine a funeral where people would be shouting at me telling me what an awful daughter I was.
Jess Frost :And it was actually when Nesta won the league that we made contact again and you know, yes, we've got parts of us that use humour to pretend that, but we did manage to kind of have this like lighthearted connection once more and like got to really kind of sit in the joy of our team winning the league. And then, yeah, he's been on this like sober journey since then and it's been amazing. You know he didn't even do it with 12 steps, you know anything like that. He found local kicks and charities that he was able to just speak out his shame. He was carrying so much, so much shame, the stuff that he had to deal with with his mum and dad and all his stuff from childhood he was an only child he got so much stuff that he'd never unpacked and processed or never spoken about that. It was actually just speaking out the shame that he was able to kind of park the drink in.
Jess Frost :Um, but and I hear this a lot from adult children of alcoholics whose parents have sadly died, where they kind of get this sense of relief and they think it's over now, right, and I thought when my dad got sober, oh my god, it's over now, it's over. And that's when things got like even harder for me. I couldn't escape the tapping at the door of my own trauma. It was like the quiet when he's not, when the chaos isn't happening. I was only left with the chaos inside of me. I was addicted to the chaos. I was addicted to the stress response.
Flic Taylor :I was addicted to codependency oh my god, this is huge, jess, this is huge. I had to sit with that. It's your, it's normalcy, it's, yeah, everything you've known. I know.
Jess Frost :And before that time I got to blame everything else apart from me. It was always something else. Oh, it was their drinking, it was this, that and the other. And then I got to see how my codependency was kind of. I was in the drama triangle. I was like stuck in these dynamics, chasing drama fine, you know, wondering why am I always in drama? And it was like, oh my god, I'm actually gonna have to take responsibility for myself and my part to play. Not not in dad's alcoholism, you know what I mean but like how how dynamics and chaos ends up subconsciously playing out inside of ourselves. It's quite common that we'll soak up certain dynamics and certain patterns that will play out internally, but then also we find ourselves in these patterns in relationships as well. And I was like, oh my goodness, like I'm going to have to really really turn the mirror back on me now really turn the mirror back on me now.
Flic Taylor :You can miss me. It's such, it's such unique work, which is why you're the perfect person to be helping people now, because you kind of went down the road or processing this, didn't you, and it's led you to where you are, thank goodness, for others, you know. Um, I'm so sorry to hear this story and to hear what you've experienced, but so, just like, how do you so for someone listening to this? Yeah, so you've heard, like you know, an adult, child and an alcoholic. What kind of things can, what clues are in their life? Like we've talked about the dependency and the perfectionism, we've talked about the burnout, because it's that cycle. What other things are very prominent?
Jess Frost :yeah yeah like you've just said, then I think, yeah, if you it's, it's noticing where your self-worth might be attached to and that's quite hard to to to notice straight away, and it might be you get to do that with a practitioner but, like with the codependency, it might be that yourself is attached to being of service, of rescuing people, of fixing problems. It might be that yourself is attached to being of service of rescuing people, of fixing problems. It might be that that's how your dynamic is in a relationship. Often people find that they are in relationships with people that struggle with addiction um, not always, but, but sometimes they find themselves in similar kind of um situations.
Jess Frost :When you are in an environment growing up with addiction, with alcohol addiction, you can absorb certain rules, right, subconsciously. And these you don't get sat down by a parent and go. That parent doesn't say to you right, jess, in this house we don't feel we don't talk, jess, in this house we don't feel, we don't talk, we don't trust you. Don't explicitly get told that, right, but you will subconsciously get that messaging through your environment, right, are you someone that numbs out your emotions? Do you? Are you sat in your head? Do you cognitively understand everything, intellectualize everything? Do you actually feel right, like I numbed out with red wine, with Netflix, you name it, food I didn't want to feel any. I didn't want to feel anything. I tell myself I'm fine. All the time I didn't feel, I didn't feel safe to talk, I didn't or trust people to share what was going on to me. One in five people are affected by someone's drinking.
Jess Frost :I read that on your website One in five. One in five, right, but how often do you hear people share that they're struggling? Yes, so it might be that you don't really feel safe. Maybe you don't feel safe to go to a therapist, yeah, or or share this. Maybe you keep a lot of stuff to yourself. Maybe you are sat here going, but I'm the strong one. That's what I always had. I had these labels of I'm strong, I'm independent. I used to like love, the whole independent woman like I was like feed that narrative, right, because that's what's going to keep me safe. I want to say that I'm just really fierce and independent and strong. That was my armor. That was what my protectors did to keep me safe.
Jess Frost :Um, so it might be like I was saying, you start to notice patterns. It might be that with intimacy, you really struggle with, like, a healthy sexual relationship. You might struggle with the intimacy of being able to share how you're feeling with a partner. Maybe there's regular conflict. Maybe you struggle with communication, or maybe your relationships end after a certain amount of time because it gets too close. Right, are you struggling with perfectionism?
Jess Frost :Like, yeah, there's so many different ways that this can manifest, and for a lot of adult children of alcoholics. It will manifest in their own addiction as well, and maybe someone sat there questioning their own relationship with alcohol. Yeah, um, but it's kind of like people will. It will manifest in different ways. There's lots of different roles and I'll give you nakoa's um website as well the charity nakoa but there's lots of kind of roles that you can fall into as a child of an alcoholic, and sometimes it depends on, like, whether you're the elder sibling or the younger sibling, but that can have an impact on, like, how you are. So I was the eldest, so it's like I'm gonna look after everyone, I'm gonna protect everyone, I'll be the strong one, um, but everyone's dynamic and everyone's kind of childhood is going to be different. But I hope that kind of helps to kind of. Yeah, if you're listening to this and you maybe have had niggles, that something's not right. I couldn't ignore the niggle anymore, right I didn't maybe as well.
Jess Frost :So for for a lot of people it's the body is tapping, the body is holding that score, the body's holding the trauma. So I started to develop around new york um, gluten intolerance, um, my mum's got autoimmune problems, that definitely like. We've had chats now about how that could be linked to trauma and unresolved trauma. I was starting to have allergies.
Flic Taylor :I got constant neck pain, eye pain, back pain like it's the weight, I was gonna say the sheer weight, what you don't want to see yep, 100%.
Jess Frost :It was all just like tapping um, but yeah, definitely like for someone that if, if you're holding an emotion, a lot that will start to show up in in different ways. For me it was like these random outbursts, often with the people I love the most um, and that inability to say I need help, like you might be listening to this and you really struggle to text someone back and say I'm struggling, I'm actually not okay, like maybe you've got no self-care routine at all, maybe no tools that can help you when you're depleted, or no one you feel you could turn to when you really really need it. Like, but yeah, I think sometimes the body is like the final alarm of like you're not listening.
Flic Taylor :We're gonna have to take you down, yeah yeah absolutely, absolutely, and so you have set up an incredible program, haven't you?
Jess Frost :So, yes, so yeah, my coaching's evolved completely Like it started off very traditional life coaching and very much about the subconscious, with neuro-linguistic programming and hypnotherapy and some amazing tools. But over the last few years years it's really evolved into more therapeutic coaching, I guess, um, where it's more about somatic. So I train in breath work, I'm currently training in somatic EMDR so I can help people process the traumatic memories um that they're still holding. Um. So, yeah, I have different ways that people can work with me and I think this is important to say as well. Sometimes you will want one-to-one to build trust and safety and sometimes it's group, so I offer both um, I want people to be able to choose what feels safe for them. Yeah, I started one-to-one to build the safety and then lent into the groups, whereas some people feel like, no, I want to kind of go group first and then maybe some one-to-one. So I do my Reclaim Yourself one-to-one program. So that kind of incorporates all of the kind of holistic tools dealing with the subconscious, mind and body, courageous healing program which, um, yeah, I'm on my, currently in my second cohort and it's just a joy it's.
Jess Frost :I created it because someone said to me once if you can't find what you're looking for, create it yourself. I had a lot of people sending me 12-step programs for codependency and I just didn't feel and I'm not saying it's wrong, no but I just didn't feel for myself. It was aligned with what I was seeking and I wanted something that, yes, will incorporate certain favors of the work that you do in in that, in that program, but it's about the mind, the body, the soul. There's movement, there's somatic practices, there's joy, there's play. We're talking about intimacy. I want to talk about the stuff that isn't talked about much out there, um, where you know we have that beautiful element of peer support and sharing circles where you finally get to be seen and heard and build safety around that Cause it's kind of like a muscle you're, you're building right. We were so focused, we're so attuned to other people. From a very, very young age it feels very, quite, quite scary to be seen and heard. So it's about building safety around that.
Jess Frost :And then a big big thing is about building safety in the calm and building safety in the joy, like I remember Brené Brown talking about foreboding joy. Joy is such a beautiful part of healing. It's a very vital part of healing. Fun, play, joy is very, very important for healing, but many of us adult children of alcoholics or anyone that's grown up with narcissism and abuse like to actually sit in calm and joy and success and your light feels very, very unsafe, right, I catch myself now when I have a good day, I'll probably close down this podcast and I'll feel this joy and then I'll be like, oh, maybe I fancy a red wine, like I notice how quickly I want to numb it out because it's like my body's like whoa, whoa, whoa whoa.
Jess Frost :This is nice. So it's about slowly building resilience and about building safety in the stuff that we didn't get, gifting ourselves some of the things we never got. So, yeah, it's like a mixture of one to one. You've got EMDR therapy, should you want it. You've got peer support. You've got self-healing resources that you can tap into at leisure somatic and holistic, like well-being hubs that you can tap into at leisure, um, somatic and holistic, like well-being hubs, um.
Jess Frost :And yeah, it's just trying to incorporate lots of different bits that I've practiced and that I've kind of put into the world in one place, and it's a joy it really is the tears the connection, the synergy, like yes, yes, yeah, being in circle and kind of someone sharing something, and a part of you and your inner child just feels like so seen, and there's something the term used in like trauma, somatic trauma healing called corrective experience.
Jess Frost :The term used in like trauma, somatic trauma healing, called corrective experience. And that's what I'm trying to be able to offer people is for those little them wounded in their children, it's offering a corrective experience from what they've had. So if someone's never felt like they can be themselves or share when they're struggling or show emotion, if they can do that and get a better experience, it's kind of healing in itself for those little parts of them. So it's kind of getting lots of different um experiences that allow them to kind of build trust again and to, you know, feel, talk and trust. That's ultimately what I want people to be able to do.
Flic Taylor :I love this. I love this so much because self-compassion is not as easy as it sounds, you know, and certainly when, um, you've kind of been through trauma, your child alcoholic, like, let's face it, there are going to be parts of you that were not allowed to be playful. And so for you to then go, right, okay, I've looked in this box, okay, I'm going to start to, you know kind of process this. Don't put pressure on yourself to then be like, right, I, I need to now be more playful, I need to do this and I need to do this because that is tapping into the old caretaker, the old action proactive.
Jess Frost :It really is. Honestly, it's a journey and I'm still on it. Okay, I'm messy AF. I say to anyone who comes into my spaces don't expect, please don't expect me to be perfect, don't expect me to be fully healed. Like I am still on this journey. I'm still learning bits of myself, like I think the golden healing is that you have this awareness that you can't unsee right and I think, if anything, I catch myself doing that. So, like I was saying about the joy, I fully expect that when I turn this off, I'll be like okay, what am I gonna do? I'm gonna put Netflix on and.
Jess Frost :I know I'm just gonna sit in this, I'm gonna meditate in this feeling, or or I catch myself, like I say to my partner, nick, like one of the rules that I had for this business when I left the corporate world was don't bring corporate energy here. Right, it was one of the first things I said to myself do not bring corporate energy into this. And then I catch myself. I'm like, oh my god, I'm hustling again and it's, it's so conditioned, it's so hardwired. The parts of us that were formed to protect us are always going to be there. We're not going to banish them, we don't want to get rid of them, we don't want to shame them, right. But what we want to be able to do is lead in self-energy a bit more, and a bit more of a grounded leadership, self-leadership energy. And that's what it is. It's being able to catch ourselves and be like, oh, okay, I can see that part of me is really activated and that makes total sense, that they are you know, and you know what.
Jess Frost :There are days when self-compassion is so far away, it's untrue, and I am pummeling myself.
Jess Frost :I have days where, because I think, growing up in an environment with addiction and dysfunction, you know where you're not able to form a real, like secure attachment with yourself and those around you.
Jess Frost :Your worth is so affected, like I describe it as like there's always going to be this dark, dark, dark little me. I sometimes feel her like there and I'll be doing my work in the world and I'll be on Instagram and there's a part of me that's like mate, someone's going to catch you out any minute. They're going to find out that you're an absolute fucking mess and you don't deserve to do this. And and you know what? Maybe on those days I don't, I can't access compassion, maybe it's really hard, but when I can I will. And I think being able to speak to other people, like my groups and Nick, my other spaces and people like Josh Connolly, our friend, like when I can speak it out loud to people and say, god, this is how I felt today and these are the thoughts that have been coming in, that's the closest thing I get to compassion in the, you know, in that time, yeah, I've already started, you know I've done that.
Flic Taylor :I've already broken down. I was like I can't hold it any longer.
Flic Taylor :I mean just to me it is interesting you're saying you know, you know some days self-compassion is not there and and for people kind of working with you you know some days are as messy as fuck, but that's why you are the perfect person to do this, because you know just what you shared there, like I think we all have a little part of us. That is just like and to hear someone say I too have that is incredible. So, whether it's working one-to-one with you or whether it's working within a group where there's other people nodding or like having a tear, like it's so powerful and so important as you take these steps forward. Because, again, I'm going to go back to that moment in New York where you're looking at the building and like you got your rucksack on and that is your tower moment, like every bloody fucking brick fell down, but look at the beauty that that you've created by taking those steps forward.
Flic Taylor :And I guess I'm just, I'm just sharing this and I just want people, if they're listening to this, like don't, don't worry, we've both been there, haven't we? Where you're like I do not see how I'm gonna be able to even stand up, not alone take a step forward, and I know that feeling and it's it's rough, I get it, but you know, listening to you share your story, and there's obviously other stories on the podcast and they're going to relate to different facets of burnout. But just hold on, hold on yeah so love yourself.
Flic Taylor :Yeah, really tap into any little part that can just give yourself that love and compassion that you so deserve and are worthy of without any of this. You know people pleasing and caretaking and being the strong one. How are you flick? Hey, I'm great. How are you?
Jess Frost :you know it's okay to kind of be like, oh, I'm fucking on the floor today yeah, yeah and honestly, it's why, um, I got my tattoo, because I I got the, the Brooklyn Bridge and the buildings where I worked on on here and underneath it is my sister's handwriting. Anything's possible. We're in this together. Um, that was done when dad was deep in his alcoholism early on and then I had that over the top of it. But it's there to remind me of the light and the dark and I think when we can hold both simultaneously, I think when we can hold duality, I think it opens a door to healing like like no other and like that can mean different things to me at different days. Right, looking at that, I can look at that and be like, thank goodness that happened because I'm here. I can look at that and go you're okay to crumble, you're gonna, you're gonna be all right yeah it, can you know it?
Jess Frost :it can be whatever I need it to be, um, and it reminds me that I'm I'm okay, I'm safe to not be a kind of cliche, but I'm safe to break down. I'm safe to cry. I'm safe to not be a kind of cliche, but I'm safe to break down. I'm safe to cry, I'm safe to lean into support and I think, yeah, when you're ready, because I fully appreciate that a lot of the people that gravitate towards my work it takes a while sometimes for people to actually take the first steps in their healing. Take the first steps in their healing.
Jess Frost :It can be incredibly terrifying and that armor those parts of you that have developed. They will do everything they freaking can to stop you from reaching out to that person, booking that discovery call or whatever. So, but when you're ready, I think when you can even just be in community follow, like NACOA if you're listening to this and you don't know them already the Charity National Association for Children of Alcoholics or you know dip into some of the peer support spaces that are available. Like, just, you don't even have to share, Right? That's one of the things that I'm really passionate about is whether it's my drop in peer support that I've got once a month, or whether it's the deeper stuff. Dropping peer support that I've got once a month, or whether it's the deeper stuff, it's a treading carefully. You can do it at your pace and there are people out there that hope will allow for that building of safety.
Jess Frost :Slowly, very, very slowly. But yeah, I'd say, find your people, connect with people and just see how you feel, you feel safe with that person. Just because you've got a title or they've got letters after their name doesn't mean they're right for you. I'm really passionate about that. Yes, I struggled personally with a real power dynamic that I was seeing in therapy and psychology and psychology, and it's that's not to say that that all of that's bad, but what it? What it's taught me is that I never want to position myself as an expert. Right, I'm a space holder, I reflect back, I've got some tools that we can use and I can impart, but my clients are the experts of them yeah and like I think that really helps adult children of alcoholics with, you're already taking a really scary step.
Jess Frost :And then if you're met with someone that's got this like superiority and and and kind of energy power dynamic, I think that can make people kind of even further. So there are some bloody brilliant practitioners out there, whether it's therapists, whether it's counselors, whether it's coaches, healers test see who makes you, who you feel, safer. That's really important for that art for their past to come off.
Flic Taylor :So I'm just just real scar. We're all down my bloody face right like god. It's a podcast, um, you know what as well? Just I'm listening to you and I'm just thinking it's also okay for, if you to look brilliant, you know you want support and you want some help and you want some guidance.
Flic Taylor :I feel it's also okay if you look around your close circle and those relationships aren't equipped or light aligned to help you. We can sometimes think, oh, you know my partner, my, you know my family members, my, whatever they should be the ones to help me. But no, that doesn't have to be, because sometimes we, you know, we have relationships in our life that kind of mirror what we're experiencing and they're there just for a little short time or a lot like. So it's OK if you're sat there thinking, ok, but is this strange that I'm going to join Jess and join Jess's community group of people, I don't know when? I can't actually say this to my partner and I feel I'm just going to sit here and say, no, go on, go see Jess, go see Jess, it's okay, don't worry about that, don't worry about that. And we are allowed to change and relationships are allowed to change in our lives, but I just feel, oh, look after you, look after you and do what feels right for you exactly and everyone's to go at different paces.
Jess Frost :but I think you're right. I describe it as like sharing circles, like and sometimes it's good to like, put it on paper and have, like you and then some circles outside and think like circles of sharing and safety. Who's where? And I think sometimes, like around us, it is the therapist or the coach or the peer support, and then it might be these people and then these people. But it's OK to test what you can share with who, who's able to hold it.
Jess Frost :I've got some great friends that are great for a laugh, but as soon as I share something deep for them or part of like what I I've shared here, they'll just shut down, close off, they're, they're gone and and and that was really activating for my inner child, so it's okay to put them here. These are what I do and these are friends, what I do fun. These are the ones I might go to the pub with, these are the ones that I can have a coffee and I can share the deepest, darkest parts of my shadow self and they can hold it. But I think it's OK to to see people for what they are and what they can hold. I think that's really important, a part of your empowering journey, really.
Flic Taylor :Yes, absolutely, absolutely. So what's your one last thing? You would love to be able to tell someone listening to this love to be able to tell someone listening to this who has I you know it's resonated deeply with what. What's something that you'd like to kind of let them know that you're not alone, like you're not, you're not broken.
Jess Frost :There's nothing wrong with you and, more than anything, it should never have fucking been your responsibility yeah, oh no, I didn't like.
Flic Taylor :I didn't even bring tissue with me, okay, but you know what I? So I want to read out, as long as I don't get a wobbly voice. Yeah, you've got these words on your website and I'm like oh, they're beautiful. And you say it was never our fault. We are enough and we always have been. Oh, there we go Wobble, wobble, wobble, but it's beautiful and I think that's just such a good reminder.
Jess Frost :We all need it. I need it, yeah, trust me. Like, when someone says those words and I know, you know Josh Connolly, and that's one of the people that I kind of first met when I did this real deeper, more embodied work and he'd say those words, the type or whatever words he'd say, oh my god, it's so aligned. You need to hear it, isn't it? But I think that's why actually breath work, like the breath work for emotional release, the conscious, connected breathing classes that we put on and people like josh put on, I think that's're so powerful. Look how those words touched you. Yeah, and that's in your conscious mind.
Jess Frost :Imagine what some people that have got very, very strong armor will feel when they can do a practice that means they drop out of here and into here and they finally get to hear those words that maybe parts of them are so desperate to hear. And I think, yeah, like it's easy to brush off, isn't it Sometimes, when we're in our like protective, conscious mind of like, oh, that's really kind, oh, yeah, that's quite sweet. But when, another moment, when you're more in your body and you're more grounded, like you did hear those words in a different way and you're like that's touched a part of me, yeah, oh yes, I just can't wait for more people to know about your work and know about your magic.
Flic Taylor :Like you just have the most incredible energy. I just can't wait for people to listen to this, um, but obviously, if you're listening to this and you're kind of having a lovely moment, like I did, you know DM me, dm Jess, with that, like do you know what I mean? But this has been amazing. It really has. I knew it would be.
Jess Frost :I knew it would be, no, I knew as well. Thank you, it's been a joy.
Flic Taylor :Yeah, and so what I've been doing asking guests at the end of our conversations been doing asking guests at the end of, uh, our conversations? Just some like quick fire, light hearted questions. So on your dodgy tough days, jess, do you opt for? Move your body or move the remote?
Jess Frost :remote, get some good telly on good british telly well, I've been watching stranger things, I think for like the third time at the moment.
Flic Taylor :I'm like oh, so good, so good, okay, bag of almonds or bag of maltesers maltesers.
Jess Frost :But I mean I can't have the gluten, but I'd have the maltesers, I'd do it myself for them cup of tea down you go um.
Flic Taylor :Oh, this is tricky.
Jess Frost :Ask for help or happy to hermit on my tough days there'll be a part of me fighting the help, like big part of me that will just be like no, no, no, um, so yeah, I might, I might hermit with a bit of breath, work, and if there's a peer support, call that day I'll force myself to go Done that sounds like a good plan.
Flic Taylor :Good plan, Okay. Now lastly, what's the one self-compassionate thing you're going to do today that your future self's going to thank you for?
Jess Frost :Bit like what I was saying earlier I'm going to sit in the joy of this conversation. I'm gonna sit in the joy of this conversation, like I. Nick's actually gone away my partner to do a men's retreat, so I've got the house myself, just me and the cat, which, for part of me, will just feel like it wants to distract. Okay, I want to distract myself massively, so I'm gonna just put some music on and I'll probably have a good old cry because, yeah, I can feel, I can feel it. So I'm like, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonna allow this emotion and this beautiful feeling from this beautiful conversation yeah, a beautiful conversation that is gonna.
Flic Taylor :We know, um, the ripple effect will be huge. We may not even know the people who it's really helped, but we know it's helped someone.
Jess Frost :Yeah and I'm just sending everyone so much love. If this resonates like honestly, you're not alone and there are the most beautiful communities awaiting when you're ready yes, I love it.
Flic Taylor :I'll put in the show notes everything that people can. You know where people can find you, your work and the links that you've messaged I also I'm going to put out to the universe. I kind of want to be reading your book, jess, just saying, uh, that's on the vision board. Lovely, thank you. Let me know when that's out, because I'll be. Uh, we'll have another conversation about that.
Jess Frost :Well done oh my god, seriously, that's on the vision board.
Flic Taylor :Maybe this is the prompt to make it happen good, I was kind of like the other day go, oh, I wouldn't mind reading jess's book. Let's uh put that out to the universe.
Jess Frost :Um, come on universe any book publishers? Anyone know any good publishers?
Flic Taylor :fantastic. Oh jess, this has been amazing. Thank you so much, darling like, what an absolute joy.
Jess Frost :Thank you, you're a joy. Thank you honestly. It's been my pleasure.
Flic Taylor :Thank you thank you so much for listening to this episode of everyday burnout conversations. Take a peek at the show notes for any links to items discussed today. And if you want to continue the burnout conversation, you can find me on social media at FlickTaylorWrites, or you can head to my website, flicktaylorcom, if you're curious and want to learn more on what it's like to work with me one-to-one. So in the meantime, rest up, don't forget to take good care of you, and bye for now.